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the struggle of
living within...(location of the body)
and/or
being of...(identity & location of the mind)

Wow, yeah, people really need to stop passing that phony quote around.

Excellent thoughts, Father!

Chris, you're right -- the libertarian cluster of ideas cannot act as "first principles." I wonder, rather, if there are any "first principles" that the libertarian agenda does possess. My libertarian notions, whatever they are, are more reactionary than basic.

James, thank you for that correction. The "less government" ideal is meaningful in an autocratic rule, like a monarchy (which, because of its ties to tradition, is probably the only autocracy that might be tolerable). "Democracy" per se must have regulation -- for regulation (even marketplace regulation) is a primary mode of government, especially in a modern culture.

Frmartyw, I would only suggest that the authority of the state and the authority of the church are qualitatively different. I agree that in the West all authority is tempered by some sort of social contract -- which, in the case of our current President, seems not to be working all that well for him with regard to fellows who would like to disqualify his authority.

Which leads me to recommend, once again, that in the Church, authority must be predicated upon theosis -- or, more to the point -- the filling of the Holy Spirit. Ecclesial authority without the presence of the fruits of the Spirit become just another worldly tyranny -- i.e., just another exercise of the Gentiles "lording it over others."

Elizabeth, this quote -- which may be the most popular Chrysostom quote on the Internet -- turns out to be miss-attributed. I don't know who wrote it originally, but it could not have come out of St John's oeuvre.

At best, it is an idiosyncratic translation of some cobbled-together fragments -- redacted mainly to make Chrysostom more amenable to certain agenda than what he would have been.

The only source for this quote seems to be a little anthology called "On Living Simply." The author
/translator -- a certain van der Weyer -- gives no feasible reference for this quote. (Many thanks to John Sanidopoulos for his gumshoe work on this troubling attribution: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/01/can-anyone-trace-source-of-this-quote.html)

But who is suggesting the armed removal of the rich's precious gold? Is that what is thought as soon as anyone says something nice about welfare? Just recently, in regard to this very and spurious quote, a sitting Metropolitan was catcalled as a Marxist, of all things.

Daring to mention a single snot on the nose of the sacred free market, these days, will get you the gong-and-hook exeunt off the burlesque stage.

"Should we look to kings and princes to put right the inequalities between rich and poor? Should we require soldiers to come and seize the rich person’s gold and distribute it among his destitute neighbors? Should we beg the emperor to impose a tax on the rich so great that it reduces them to the level of the poor and then to share the proceeds of that tax among everyone? Equality imposed by force would achieve nothing, and do much harm. Those who combined both cruel hearts and sharp minds would soon find ways of making themselves rich again. Worse still, the rich whose gold was taken away would feel bitter and resentful; while the poor who received the gold form the hands of soldiers would feel no gratitude, because no generosity would have prompted the gift. Far from bringing moral benefit to society, it would actually do moral harm. Material justice cannot be accomplished by compulsion, a change of heart will not follow. The only way to achieve true justice is to change people’s hearts first—and then they will joyfully share their wealth."
-St. John Chrysostom

For some time now, nearly a decade, I have thought that the central issue facing Orthodoxy and State relations is the interaction between the two in a democratic political system. In many ways, historically, it seems that there was a "check/balance" relationship between Church and State. Church was never independent of the state - either an Emperor, a Sultan, a Czar or a Communist Central Committee stood ready to oversee the administration and (to varying degrees) the theology and praxis of the Church.

Canon law developed around this model, and so enshrines the relationship, not explicitly but implicitly.

In the Democratic west, particularly the United States, it seems that Congregationalism was the model, because that model preserved the balance between Church and State - the "state" in this instance being the people. The consent of the governed became the defining principle of democratic state.

Most of the debates we see today, be it same-sex marriage or abortion on demand or divorce or pornography, seem to rotate around this issue of consent of the governed. The Church, through the hierarchy, bangs it's fists on the table and stomps it's feet on the floor and says, "NO! You MUST obey - I represent GOD HIMSELF!" And yet, that ugly idea of consent of the governed still comes into play. In the Western World, we want very much to *choose* whom we obey, or disobey, and so we vilify the elected leadership of the opposition, and disobey - He's not MY president! Not MY Bishop!

What's missing is the place of the Holy Spirit, in my view. St. Paul reminds us that all leadership is put in place by God Himself. How that individual comes to leadership is the Holy Spirit Himself. Be it Obama or Bush or Metropolitan or Priest, all authority is given by God. We would do well (all of us - including the leadership!) to remember that.

An example of what you will find in this blog: "Never once did the Church protest against what we have grown to call today, inaccurately, "socialism." The Church, historically speaking over the centuries, has never discouraged any "dole" or "welfare" or governmental relief given to the poor. This sort of "Christian protest against relief" is a rather modern anomaly that is troubling, to say the least, and has nothing to do with real Christian values." Worth a read. It is instructive.

Thanks for the closing especially... makes me think the cloak of democracy excuses much legerdemain... it is harder to determine who is accountable, where and for what. And yet this diffusion slows the process of governance so that some of its errors might occasionally be corrected before the consequences prove dire.

I suspect one of the casualties of the modern era was to discover that if you can run your country on a permanent war (or war-like) footing, you can posit a need for urgency that thoroughly discounts and totally trumps the legitimacy of one's opposition... and essentially voids a truly democratic process. I wonder whether at times that the legacy of the Cold War followed by the War on Terror and paralleled by any number of manic policy wars "on poverty", "drugs", old people, children, etc. ... is that all our urgency belies a lost confidence in our people, a lost confidence in democracy and belief in each other. Too time consuming? Too unrealistic? Too troublesome? So let's just gerrymander so we don't have to actually have any voting! I wish we had actually had peace and let peace be peace, so that we could actually try the hard work of democracy again... and discover whether anyone actually wants to do it.

I thought I was a libertarian until I saw how dogmatic libertarians allow themselves to become.... and the chaos that would flow from that. Were it not for a terrible historical record, the whole philosopher king thing has some appeal. Problem is that once they get the crown, they seem to get away from the philosophy pretty quick.

Think perhaps the corollary to the "Government that governs best is the one that governs least" probably refers to a king ... because a decree is a whole lot less effort to issue than forging a consensus. By contrast, democracy presupposes some sort of earthly communion, loving one's enemies, self-restraint, etc. in order for it to work. Without a virtuous people, it fails. And for a people who have convinced themselves that the only virtue is non-judgmentalism... it fails absolutely.

Very, very wise post, Father.

"Never once has the Church opposed 'Statism' per se, or 'federalism' or the centralization of the State. This is hard for me to admit, because I harbor not a few libertarian notions."

So do I. I don't think a Christian can be a "libertarian" as such. Not that one can't have some libertarian ideas, but not as first principles. You have to justify them on prudential grounds in the context of first principles that can pass Christian muster. One can believe that "that government which governs least, governs best" -- but not to the point that injustice is allowed to flourish for lack of restraint.

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